Ok so the Red Sox fans out they are quite humorous, I thank them for that. Their defense of the Red Sox spending hundreds of millions, and the comparison to the Yankees have been quite entertaining. Forget about Saturday Night Live, reading the Red Sox fans facebook comments is a great source of comedy. Better yet, there are no commercial breaks here either. Anyway here are some of the best/interesting comments (excuses) I found:
The majority of these comments all came from the same guy. While I might not agree with everything he says, I would like to see the guy make a Red Sox Blog one day.
1) “The major difference between the 2 teams right now is that the Yankees are saddled with LARGE contracts on old players as well as a couple LONG contracts on other players who they can’t move.
The Yankes still have tens of millions left on Beltran, Tex, Arod, & CC. The oldest Sox player Ortiz, has only 1 guaranteed year left on his contract & if his option for next year is picked up, it’s at $6 million LESS than this year.”
Ok so the Yankees have big contracts they can’t move. Sounds reasonable, I mean the Dodgers don’t have any money left after paying the Red Soxs big contracts for several more years. Although the Yankees do get more out of those large contracts than the Red Sox got out of John Lackey, Adrian Gonzalez, and Carl Crawford. Not sure what David Ortiz’s option being cheaper than his guaranteed years really means, that is pretty typical. Generally you don’t get a raise for your age 40 season, especially as a DH.
2) “You can bring in payroll when you clean out payroll”
So when the Yankees no longer had to pay 10+ million annually to each member of the Core 4, that means it is ok to sign new players with that money. Or when you don’t resign Bobby Abreu, Johnny Damon, Robinson Cano, David Robertson, Curtis Granderson, Hideki Matsui, and Jason Giambi. It is not like the Yankee payroll has dramatically fluctuated over the past 5 years, while it has for the Red Sox.
3) “On the surface, the Sox spending $183 million on Panda & Hanley, plus $63m on Moncada & $72 million on Castillo appears to look similar to what the Yankees have been doing.”
Actually I disagree, spending that much on two international players who scouts have seen very little of, and signing an injury prone player and another question mark is not the typical Yankee offseason. Usually the Yankees sign players who have a good track record of success in the league.
4) “Our C’s are making much less as is our Starting Pitching staff, last year cost nearly $60 million, this year costs $37 million. That’s a drop by $23 million.”
Maybe your catchers and starting pitching is not very good. You have a rookie catcher and giving him the task of making a mediocre pitching staff play good enough to reach the postseason. Not to mention his bat was not impressive. Wade Miley struggled, and who can say he will rebound when he is playing in a better hitters park and will face a DH. Rick Porcello had his first good season in his 6 year career. He is being paid 12.5M for that and will be a free agent after the season. Buchholz always seem to be either ineffective or injured, and Joe Kelly might be your most consistent pitcher. Even he has problems, the most inning he has pitched in the majors is 124 and he never has had 20 starts before. Also he pitches to contact, and this is not the Royals defense.
5) “Last year Yanks: $458 million (Ellsbury, Tanaka, Beltran, McCann)
This Year Sox: $318.5 million (Panda, Hanley, Castillo, Moncada)”
The Red Sox will be spending $72M a year on those 4 players. The Yankees will be spending $78M a year. hmm Not a very big difference, and the Red Sox are paying two players who have seen little MLB caliber players. The way he worded it can be deceiving, considering the length of the deals are longer for the Yankees 22 years between the 4, compared to 17 years for the Red Sox. Not to mention that Moncada will probably not be starting the 2015 season in even Double-A.
6) “In Hanley’s final year, he’ll be 35, Panda 33, Castillo 33, & Moncada 25. The Sox are buying PRIME years, the Yanks are buying past prime years. Beltran’s already a part-time player and now will split time with Arod at DH, the Yanks DH spot cost over $40 million!”
Actually Moncada is starting in the minors. Even the top young players like Bryce Harper had to spend a full season in the minors. Strasburg had 16 starts in the minors before making his MLB debut. Harper and Strasburg is also the exception, not the norm. So Moncada will be older than that in his final year before free agency.
“The Sox are buying PRIME years, the Yanks are buying past prime years. Beltran’s already a part-time player and now will split time with Arod at DH, the Yanks DH spot cost over $40 million!” 33, 33 and 35 are not prime years. The only players who perform well at that late of an age are the best of the generation caliber players, which none of them are even close too. They are signing short term deal because they are not great players, unless they would command and take long term offers. Also Beltran is not a DH, he is the RF. If he plays bad though maybe he gets DFA’d like Alfonso Soriano. A-Rod is only going to split time at DH with Garrett Jones. That is way less than 40 million, in fact Beltran and A-Rod’s salary don’t even equal $40M.
7) “The two franchises are different. The Red Sox have invested in international players at relatively modest sums for the super rich and when they have delved into the FA market (Hanley and Panda) they have done so for less than $100 MM. The Yankees by comparison have several players at over $180 MM and their international signing is at $155 MM! – staggering differences.”
The Red Soxs are different because they invested in international players. Really? That is exactly what the Yankees have been doing. “Done so for less than $100M”, where was everyone when the Red Sox signed Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford? Yeah Tanaka cost $155M, and was one of the best pitchers in the 1st half of the season. Meanwhile Moncada has minimal professional experience and he signed the largest signing bonus in history. They also signed Rusney Catillo to a 7 year $72M deal. So both teams are willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money to acquire talent.
8) “The Yanks gave Miller 4 years and $36 million to setup. That’s $9 million a year to setup. And the NY writer says the Yanks are being ‘more’ disciplined? The Yanks are basically paying Arod $25 m to be on the bench.”
Well first off A-Rod is making $22M this year, and as the DH and backup 1B/3B. 2nd no one has a clue whether Girardi is going to let Miller or Betances be the closer. You said another comment that Andrew Miller was the best lefty RP in the game, so in that case then it is a fair price to pay for him.
9) “If Lester said he’d take a hometown discount, why didn’t he ever make the Sox a counter offer?”
Well they gave him an offer in Spring Training that was lower than the contracts they gave to Pablo Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez. What was there to counter, the Red Sox made it clear that they didn’t think much of him? I mean they signed Moncada and will have to pay $63M before he makes his MLB debut, yet offer an established MLB pitcher $70M. That is less than they signed Lackey for, and Lester was better than Lackey at the time he hit free agency.
10) “At this time in 2013, who was the Ace of the Sox staff? Lester & Buchholz had horrific 2012’s, Lackey missed the whole year,. Dempster was a disaster for Texas in AL West & our 5th starter was unproven doubront. On paper, right now, the 2015 starting rotation is light years better than the 2013 rotation was at this time. Does that mean anything?
Porcello in 2014 was BETTER than Letser’s 2012. Buch & Buch cancel each other out. Miley > Lackey. Masterson = Dempster and Kelly > Doubront.”
The ace was John Lester, and has been for several years. Obviously he had a bad year in 2012, but you can’t give up on a player after one year. Actually the Red Sox could, as they have had more firesales then the Miami Marlins since Cherington was hired. It should be: Porcello Career < Jon Lester Career in 2013, 2014 Buccholz < 2012 Buccholz, Miley > Lackey, Masterson < Dempster, and Kelly = Doubront.
11) ” -Betts batting .291/.368 last season
-Christian Vasquez throwing out over 52% of runners trying to steal
-Tazawa has been one of the best setup men in baseball for 3 years
-Nava is an on-base machine and while his 2014 wasn’t as great as his 2013, his .270/.346 he posted was just as good as Ellsbury’s .271/.328 – only for $21 million less
-Brock Holt as a rookie last season batted .281/.331
Andrew Miller (who, while technically wasn’t drafted by Sox, came to Sox as a failed starter, who the Sox rebuilt as the best LHRP in the game).
That’s a pretty successful farm system & the best prospects haven’t even played yet (Swihart, Owens, Rodriguez, Moncada, Johnson).
By 2016, the Sox lineup will feature 6 homegrown prospects, 7 if you include Hanley. I envision: Castillo, Betts, Pedroia, Ortiz*, Swihart, Vasquez, Hanley, Panda*, Bogaerts.
And that doesn’t include Moncada.”
Tazawa is not one of the best setup men in baseball for 3 years, he only pitched 40 inning in 2012. Kelvin Herrera, Jake McGee, Wade Davis, David Robertson, Sean Dolittle, Joaquin Benoit, Darren O’Day, Luke Gregorson and Tyler Clippard are all at his level or better. In fact some of them were good enough that they got moved into the close role. The Red Sox have no closer and still haven’t moved him into the spot, maybe you are overhyping him a bit.
Mookie Betts doesn’t even have a starting job now that Shane Victorino has returned from an injury, and Christian Vazquez needs more than an arm to lead a pitching staff. He needs to be a good pitch framer, gain his pitchers confidence, and improve his hitting. Nava is not even comparable to Ellsbury. Nava is a one hit wonder, who is a defensive liability and a bad baserunner. His power is no better than Ellsbury’s and his average doesn’t make up for his glaring weaknesses. Ellsbury’s defense is far superior, as is his baserunning. For $21M less the Red Sox have a 4th, 5th, or even 6th outfielder on their club.
The Red Sox “rebuilt” Andrew Miller from a terrible starter into an effective reliever. Guess they did the same to Tommy Hunter, Wade Davis, Craig Stammen, Zach Britton, Brett Cecil, Joba Chamberlain and all the starters who converted into relievers over the years. Making the change is not very rare in the game of baseball.
Definitely a very successful farm system, looking at the Opening Day roster I can see all the superstars it has produced in the last decade *sarcasm* Seriously though, it has been overhyped before. Just think of that Wil Middlebrooks guy, the 3B of the future that made Boston confident to let Adrian Beltre go. Or Justin Masterson, how great he has panned out, that he is now excepting 1 year deals in free agency. The last successful player from the farm system is Dustin Pedroia, and he is approaching the decline phase.
7 homegrown prospects by 2016, there is only 6 on that list. Actually only 4 since he said homegrown prospects, not homegrown players. You can’t include Rusney Castillo as a homegrown player when he played professionally in another country. In that case, then that would make Tanaka a homegrown Yankee.
12) “About the 2 last place finishes. In 2012, despite massive injuries to Crawford, Lackey, Ellsbury, Bailey, Youk, somehow the Sox were 2 games out of the WC in mid-july, when Middlebrooks (when he was great), Ortiz & Pedroia all suffered season ending injuries. That was with Lester & Buchholz having their worst seasons as pros.”
Ok so the Sox were 2 games out of the WC in mid-July, and had “massive injuries”. They Yankees lost 4/5 of the rotation, Beltran missed about 2 months, as did Texeira. They Yankees had to promote starters who weren’t ready for the majors, and even had to sign Chris Capuano and give him a spot in the rotation. The Yankees won 84 gamesand were only out of contention with about a week left in the season.
In 2013, CC and Phil Hughes combined to make 61 starts and combined had an ERA just under 5. They also had bad years from Shawn Kelley, David Phelps and Joba Chamberlain. Only Cano, Ichiro, and Gardner had enough PA’s to qualify for the batting title. This forced the team to let Vernon Wells, Lyle Overbay, Travis Hafner, Jason Nix, Mark Reynolds and Chris Stewart play a combined 586 games. Despite season long injuries to Texeira, Jeter, Granderson, and A-Rod not being able to play until August, the Yankees won 85 games.
That is overcoming adversity, the Red Sox 2012 season compares in no way to this. In 2012, Lackey, Crawford, Andrew Bailey and Ellsbury were always struggling to play well or stay healthy. If Youk was so valuable the team wouldn’t have traded him for a utility man. The only blows that you mentioned that actually hurt the team were Pedroia and Ortiz going down, along with Buchholz and Lester pitching ineffectively. That is still not enough to make excuses for a dismal season.
13) “Last year was different. I believe part of the bad play was a World Series hangover, the other part was mismanagement/bad play.
But they did the SAME thing as they did in 2012. Instead of “trying” hang on, they sold. They got rid of 4/5 of their starting rotation, plus Andrew miller. Pedroia, Shane, Uehara were shut down b/c of injury. The Sox went out got Castillo, they got Cespedes.
I count that more of a last place finish than in 2012, but still, I give the Sox credit. They either want to WIN IT ALL or they are not afraid to tear it all down & rebuild.
They’re philosophy is much like Rickey bobby’s, “if you ain’t first, you’re last”.
As a Yankees fan, we you guys happy with back-to-back 2nd place finishes the past 2 years? Winning records? Of course not. Would you have traded 2 last place fnishes over the last 3 years if it meant 1 WS title? yes, you would.”
Yeah they didn’t hang on they sold. In most sports that is called tanking, for intentionally avoiding to put the best team on the field. The reason they have had to do it twice is because the Red Sox are constantly picking up ineffective or injury prone players in free agency, setting themselves up for failure time after time. Or it can be compared to the Miami Marlins firesales, but they are not a big market team and they don’t have a strong fanbase like the Red Sox. Yeah they got Cespedes, and then trade him for Porcello. Like wow, that makes it basically a Jon Lester for Porcello swap. Porcello is a 1 year rental, and has struggled for the first 5 seasons of his career.
“As a Yankees fan, we you happy with back-to-back 2nd place finishes the past 2 years?” Absolutely, any year where you can lose most of your starters and remain competitive until the end of the season is very impressive. It shows the will to succeed, firesales show the will to fail and gamble with new players. Trade 2 last places for a ring, why is the objective to become the leagues laughingstock? The Yankees already have the most rings by far, and have made the playoffs in 17 of the past 20 years including 5 WS rings. What does one ring really mean if it is followed by many years as a bottom feeder?
14) ” In 2012, the Sox had a ton of injuries and were 2 games out of the wild card. They suffered 3 more & were faced with a decision:
-do we fight to be respectable or call it a season?
They could’ve stayed afloat & made a run, but folded. Sometimes you gotta know when to fold.
The Sox shed almost $90 million from last year’s payroll. They never replaced Ellsbury’s production. This year they lose Victorino & Napoli. They had the money and are simply replacing vets with vets. Come 2016, more than 15 members of the team’s 25 man roster will be homegrown players. Watch. ”
Call it a season? The Red Sox fan base buys tickets and merchandise to embrace the team calling a quits? Must be why they had an 86 year championship drought, front office never felt pressure to succeed. They never replaced Ellsbury’s production because the Red Sox were delusional enough to think that Jackie Bradley jr was ready for the job. I remember before the season hearing Red Sox brag about how this kid was going to be an elite CF, in the same way they bragged about Will Middlebrooks when he had his 15 minutes of fame. So this man says 15 of the teams 25 man roster will be homegrown players, I though earlier he said they would have only 7 before. Wonder how that number doubled just a few posts later. Guess they plan on being like the Astros and Cubs. Doesn’t make sense why they would bother signing free agents if that was the case.
15) “(Fact #1) Boston IS NOT in New York’s zip code financially. That’s a ridiculous notion, as New York sits all by itself when it comes to baseball revenue.
You can cherry pick spending periods all you want, but revenue tells the story, and what a story it is. Take New York’s and Boston’s revenues in recent years (in millions of $, New York, Boston):
2007- 302, 234
2008- 327, 263
2009- 375, 269
2010- 441, 266
2011- 427, 272
2012- 440, 310
2013- 471, 336
Going year by year, the Yankees out-revenue the Red Sox by 29%, 25%, 39%, 66% (!!!), 57%, 42%, and 40%. Over the past seven years, the Yankees have taken in 43% more revenue than Boston has. That is a CAVERN of difference. And the crazy thing is that Boston is #2 over that period (but only by a little over many other teams, instead of a mountain).
Again, this is NOT a complaint about any kind of Boston disadvantage, just a complaint against any fool or troll who would claim that New York and Boston are on equal footings.”
Revenue is not what matters, how much profit a team makes determines how much it is capable of spending. Considering the Red Sox century old stadium, and payroll they must be profiting greatly with revenue like that. The Yankees on the other hand are still paying the city for the most expensive baseball stadium ever. They also have a bigger stadium, own the tv station they play on (YES), and get hit with the luxury tax each year. So yeah profit not revenue is what matters. Let’s be honest, the Yankees ownership put their own money into the team to keep it competitive. The Red Sox profit more than the Yankees do, because they have a lower payroll and there stadium has been paid off for decades. The Yankees just put more money back into the team then the Red Sox. According to Forbes, the Red Sox have an operating income of 25.3M, compared to the Yankees -9.1M. That is before taxes, interests, depreciations, and amortization. So yeah the Red Sox can compete dollar to dollar with the Yankees if they chose to. Right now the only thing keeping the Yankees with minimal losses is their stake in the YES network.